For those who like such statistics: according to a recent report, students who major in philosophy have a higher mid-career salary than students who major in advertising, biology, business management, criminal justice, education, human resources, medical technology, and nursing.
Those interested may also like the ranking of philosophy as a profession, which was mentioned on the blog previously. As a job, philosopher ranked ahead of psychologist (by 47), attorney (by 70), K-12 teacher (by 115), reporter (by 128), and nurse-licensed practitioner (by 172).
Looks like Economics makes out alright too.
Leiter Reports has a related (and rather interesting) piece here:
http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2010/03/what-philosophers-earn.html
Most common phrase heard from professional philosophers:
“You want fries with that?”
Scott, aside from being false, your quip applies, at most, to students who lack the skill and discipline to excel in the subject of their major, regardless of what it is. However, even philosophy students who don’t excel stand to benefit from their major — see, e.g., the data in the first link of this post; see also Jennie’s recent post:
http://unfspb.wordpress.com/2010/03/21/the-examined-life-really-is-worth-living/
– or the data on how well philosophy majors do on the GRE, the LSAT, the GMAT, etc.:
http://www.unf.edu/coas/philosophy/careers4phi.html
Scott,
Wasn’t your ill-placed quip supposed to read:
“Most common phrase said by professional philosophers:
‘You want fries with that?’”
I mean, it follows from what you said that professional philosophers apparently patron fast food burger joints with amazing frequency.
Of course, a professional philosopher wouldn’t have made such an absent-minded mistake…
Dr. V – Not trying to ruffle any feathers, just being a wiseguy. It’s what I do. And as a philosophy major myself, the quip is both harmlessly jovial and self-deprecating. The skills are invaluable, it’s the label I’m poking fun at.
When a statement like a median salary for those who study philosophy is posited, such a statement can be implied to mean that there is a market for “professional philosophers.” I checked Monster, Craigs List, and the WSJ — don’t see a whole lot of open positions for staff philosophers. Nice work if you can get it, though.
The implication that students don’t excel in their majors because of a lack of skill or discipline is an unfair critique — there are lots of factors besides skill or discipline that influence one’s performance, many of which are irrelevant to the academic content but highly relevant to the student. Even then academic performance isn’t an indicator of a person’s ability or aptitude, it’s just a representation of a person in a moment, in a specific context, interpreted subjectively. It’s not a reflection of a student in totality, nor of their potential… I don’t think there’s such a thing as a philosophy student who doesn’t excel, though — philosophy students learn critical thinking and analysis skills that open their minds and can be applied to any field or project. In that, we are indomitable, and objectors be darned. The best part of a philosophy education is in its versatility, because where so many skills and fields are procedural and unidirectional in application, philosophy is broad and omnidirectional — “right” and “wrong,” or “true” and “false” positions can be evaluated and often turned on their heads through philosophical introspection and the perspective of said philosopher/student.
The caveat is that these skills must most often be applied in non-philosophical professions. The practice of philosophy AS a profession seems niche work – there aren’t a whole lot of fields that will reward a person simply for their research and/or advancement of philosophical theory in itself – I think academia and publishing lend themselves to this, where intellectual pursuits may be the ends. In such cases, one is a professor or author by title, because those are the labels assigned to the gigs for which they are compensated. But in the common blue/white collar job market, philosophy is often the means, not the end, and is applied IN the profession but not AS the profession. When you take an example like President Bubba Clinton (for purposes of academic illustration, not moral evaluation), he parlayed his philosophy degree into two terms as PotUS, so certainly the sky is the limit, but his achievements were through the application of philosophy, not through being a professional philosopher. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
No worries, Scott. I know you well enough to understand the spirit of your note. Since this is a public forum, though, I thought that it required clarification.
For the sake of even more clarity: I did not suggest that all students who fail to excel in their major lack either skill or discipline … or both. Having had many non-academic obligations throughout my undergraduate education, I am all-too-well aware that there are other factors that prevent optimal academic performance.
Aaron – which is why I’m not a professional philosopher. I’m an infotainer.
I’m sorry, I just don’t buy that excuse. In fact I have never bought the excuse of ‘…just being a wiseguy. It’s what I do.’
Which sounds to me along the lines of a lack of responsibility towards what was said. Its just in my nature to say irreverent things is just as bad an excuse to action as its just in my nature to lie/cheat/steal/rape: pick your vice.
I don’t understand how it can be considered a niche job when near every university has at least 1 philosophy professor and even many community colleges do as well.
Furthermore this, ‘there aren’t a whole lot of fields that will reward a person simply for their research and/or advancement of philosophical theory in itself’ has some difficulty reconciles the fields of economics, mathematics, anthropology, theoretical physics, the arts and so on and so forth.
Being a Jew does not excuse that Jew from making anti-Semitic jokes, frankly I don’t even think it would mitigate it. Likewise here.
Notice that the study “is based upon PayScale Salary Survey data for full-time employees in the United States WHO POSSESS A BACHELOR’S DEGREE and no higher degrees and HAVE MAJORED IN THE SUBJECTS LISTED.” Essentially, it compares mid-career salaries based on students’ MAJORS not on students’ PROFESSIONS. So, one doesn’t have to become a professional philosopher to reap the benefits of the degree.
In defense of Scott:
“And when I saw my devil I found him serious, thorough, profound, and solemn: it was the spirit of gravity–through him all things fall.”
(Thus Spoke Zarathustra, “On Reading and Writing”, First Part)
In defense of Scott & response to Mark:
Hey, Ubermensch!
Zarathustra? I could not resist.
“Whoever writes in blood and aphorisms does not want to be read, but rather to be learned by heart”.
(On Reading and Writing, Part I)
Guten Tag!
The Nietzsche quotes are entertaining, as Nietzsche quotes usually are, but it is not at all clear how they are either (i) a defense of Scott’s view, or — more importantly — (ii) relevant to the original post. Please focus future comments, if there are any, on the topic of the post.
My quote was relevant (I think) in the sense that Scott’s response was indicted on charges of something like flippancy, to which my Nietzsche quote is a direct (and substantive–let us not equate “substantive” with “seriousness”) response to such a charge…. Perhaps I should have included the following passage where Nietzsche exhorts that we must “kill” this “devil” this “spirit of gravity” (which is done with “laughter”)….
Upon reflection, I feel that this could relate not just to a defense of Scott (which was my initial point) but to the initial post, which implies that one’s future employment/salary prospects could be a “serious” (pun intended) consideration in the decision to pursue education in philosophy, to say nothing of the broader (ominous) implications for the professionalization of philosophy in general.
So the story of old Thales goes:
“The story goes that when they found fault with him for his poverty, supposing that philosophy is useless, he learned from his astronomy that there would be a large crop of olives. Then, while it was still winter, he obtained a little money and made deposits on all the olive presses both in Miletus and in Chios. Since no one bid against him, he rented them cheaply. When the right time came, suddenly many tried to get the presses all at once, and he rented them out on whatever terms he wished, and so made a great deal of money. In this way he proved that philosophers can easily be wealthy if they desire, but that this is not what they are interested in.” (Aristotle, Politics, taken from “Philosophy before Socrates” McKirahan, page 23-24).